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2016-01-20T08:22:00Z

Comparison - NetApp AFF 8020 vs. HP 3PAR Storeserv 8200 2N FLD Int Base

We're currently comparing these two solutions.

HPE 3PAR StoreServ and NetApp AFF 

What we're looking to hear is if there are any additional costs involved if we required data protection and backup in HP 3PAR? And how large of a percentage are the additional costs?

Thanks.

33
PeerSpot user
33 Answers
PeerSpot user
Solutions Evangelist I Big Data I Cloud Enablement I Software - Defined Storage I Cybersecurity with 501-1,000 employees
Vendor
2016-01-28T20:59:17Z
28 January 16

The best honest answer really anyone can give is that it depends. Pricing in and of itself has so many variables including the nature of the deal, the technical need (what I'm sure you're after), and quite honestly the competition. These factors all come into play.

My advise is that my Solutions Architect who is an SME in both of these brands has already commented on this blog and I'm sure he would be more than happy to provide an hour of his time to truly properly answer your question.

My goal is to always agnostically solve pain points and craft solutions. If we can assist please reach out to me via email at nsilverthorne0118@gmail.com.

Vendor
2016-01-23T07:13:16Z
23 January 16

From what I understand of Gary’s response, can we assume that the HP 3PAR is more suitable for multi-site companies that require replication between sites, and that the Netapp is more suitable for local installations and is probably faster in terms of local backup and restore operations?

PeerSpot user
Solutions Architect at Hewlett Packard Enterprise
Vendor
2016-01-28T10:52:23Z
28 January 16

With 3PAR when you select StoreOnce backup Appliance, you don't need any 3rd part backup application, using RMC or RMCv you can directly take the direct backups on to the appliance, also if you include the StoreOnce Catalyst plugin then you can also take the direct backups of Oracle and SQL as well again without need of any backup application:

HP StoreOnce Recovery Manager Central – Application plug-ins

Overview

HP StoreOnce Recovery Manager Central provides integration with specific hypervisor/application environments through the following plug-ins.

HP StoreOnce Recovery Manager Central for VMware: allows VMware administrators to create hundreds of VM-aware consistent snapshots and initiate rapid online recovery directly from within the VMware vCenter™ Server virtualization management console. Using the StoreOnce RMC Express Protect feature, customers can also backup to StoreOnce directly. The backups are self-contained volumes that can be restored back to the original or different 3PAR StoreServ array in the event of a disaster.

OneView for VMware vCenter plug-in: gives VMware administrators enhanced visibility of storage resources and precise insight into how individual virtual machines are mapped to datastores and individual storage volumes. When used in conjunction with StoreOnce Recovery Manager Central for VMware, this plug-in gives administrators the power of seamless, rapid online recovery from either snapshots or backups directly from within the vCenter Server virtualization management console.

PeerSpot user
User at HPE
Vendor
2016-01-27T17:43:50Z
27 January 16

Riza - trying to give you an accurate answer is kind of like asking "who much will dinner cost"? To get a quote that is in the ballpark, you need to work with either an HPE rep to get you a quote based on the details of what you want (capacity, performance, features, etc.). There's no other way to comparative shopping. I'm happy to help connect you up with someone local - send me an email at calvin dot zito at hpe dot com (no spaces).

PeerSpot user
DataCentre, Managed Services and Cloud Consultant at a tech services company with 51-200 employees
Consultant
2016-01-27T11:20:27Z
27 January 16

Either will after the maintenance period expires. They both offer 3,4 or 5 years upfront for maintenance and support. After that they will sting you big time for renewals.

If you have a lifecycle of say 4 years then get it upfront as there won't be any new charges due to replacements. Software wise is usually around 20% of the rrp price for annual renewal after the initial period of 3,4 or 5. Depends on the vendor.

The other part is how much your data is likely to grow as dedupe appliances such as store once and dell will charge a lot for upgrades. Again it's better to get more at the start to make sure your covered for the time frames you need.

Hope that all makes sense

Vendor
2016-01-27T10:26:36Z
27 January 16

Thanks you for your advise mate, any way let me know one things which one will give me the iceberg cost at the end of the day...? 3par with storeonce and switch or Netapp with additional third party storage back up let say from Dell server as storage to backup my data, app etc.

Find out what your peers are saying about HPE 3PAR StoreServ vs. NetApp AFF (All Flash FAS) and other solutions. Updated: August 2022.
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PeerSpot user
Data Center Global SAP Operations Manager at a wholesaler/distributor with 1,001-5,000 employees
Vendor
2016-01-27T04:45:36Z
27 January 16

iIsee a lot of good comments on features of both Netapp and HP3Par, one important point to consider is that both these solutions offer some sort of point in time snapshots, snapvault,... these do not offer any cataloging features, A good backup solution includes a data base of backups for history. This is why you should also add either Data Protector, VEEM, Catalogic,. CommVault.,... the arrays themselves will do great snapshot recovery but without any information on the backups, the solution would be very limited.

PeerSpot user
Storage Specialist : N. Texas Emerging Growth Accounts at Hewlett-Packard
Vendor
2016-01-26T13:04:33Z
26 January 16

Dear Mr. Gadaffi,

I am certainly happy to help you in your research and will give my thoughts below. However, the best way to really learn about this is to start a conversation. It's kind of like asking... ("How mush for a car?. Well... it depends that your are looking for... )

My email is ty.connor@hpe.com. If you are interested, please reach out!

Both the NetApp AFF 8020 and 3PAR StoreServ 8200 are primary SAN arrays. They will best be price compared by generating similar configurations based on amount of storage, type of drive class, support and software features. 3PAR does not add any additional cost to add data protection. Both controllers are active / active, load balanced, load sharing. This means that both controllers can see, read and write to every single bit of data on all the drives. You don't loose data.

When you mention "data protection and backup" I am thinking that you mean adding a backup software and a disk to disk backup appliance. In HP's world our backup appliance is called StoreOnce. This appliance can work with ANY backup software provider you choose. HP has a backup software called Data Protector but we also particularly like working with Veeam for highly virtualized environments.

There are some significant differences in the NetApp and 3PAR arrays, I would be happy to walk through those with you if you reach out to me via email.

Thanks

PeerSpot user
Storage Sales Specialist at Hewlett-Packard
Vendor
2016-01-26T03:54:41Z
26 January 16

In the HPE Storage portfolio there are Data Protection and Backup offerings. The 3PAR Standard OS and SW options provide users with features that may provide a level of protection and backup that meets the needs. IF so, the options SW titles are industry average/acceptable.

If not, HPE 3PAR does have a direct connection to another HPE Storage Solution for D2D backup and Data Protection - HW: StoreOnce, SW: DataProtector. If the backup and data protection project requires a specific BURA solution, then the StoreOnce and DataProtector solutions are additional and the costs depend upon your needs (for example there is a software defined BURA solution for StoreOnce - StoreOnce VSA. This offering comes in large capacity license and with a low cost of ownership.

PeerSpot user
User at HPE
Vendor
2016-01-25T15:42:42Z
25 January 16

Ozgur Bulent Koza - I am not speaking for Gary but your conclusion that NetApp is better if you need local snapshots and 3PAR for remote replication is inaccurate. 3PAR has more than adequate snapshot capabilities and has advantages over NetApp. And in fact with 3PAR and StoreOnce Recovery Manager Central, you can create a "flat backup" from snapshots and store them on StoreOnce when needed for recovery. There is also snapshot integration between 3PAR and backup ISVs like Data Protector and Veeam.

So I don't agree with buy NetApp for local snapshots, 3PAR for remote replication.

PeerSpot user
DataCentre, Managed Services and Cloud Consultant at a tech services company with 51-200 employees
Consultant
2016-01-25T08:25:59Z
25 January 16

Oh god I wondered when pure would raise its hand here. Seems to happen on every all flash post like they are desperate to sell systems.

I wouldn't touch pure they are struggling with sales against HP and EMC with xtremeIO systems. At a guess I would say they will get bought out soon by someone like Lenovo or another storage vendor.

However the topic here is HP vs NetApp and what's needed i would recommend staying on subject and not trying to promote other systems that haven't been asked about.

I would back the HP system here with data protector for backup. NetApp as someone else mentioned has big issues with their all flash hence why they bought an all flash competitor solid fire so that they have a proper all flash offering without WAFL

it_user211857 - PeerSpot reviewer
IT Program Manager at a media company with 1,001-5,000 employees
Vendor
2016-01-24T14:58:03Z
24 January 16

Hello, i am not familiar with 3Par storage but i can tell you great things about the PureStorage all-flash-arrays. We installed the FA-450 and an M50 and the performance is unbelievable!! Both pump through 200,000 32K IOPS. All redundant hardware and fantastic customer service.

PeerSpot user
Pre-Sales Consultant at Tarsus Cloud On Demand
Consultant
2016-01-23T21:22:48Z
23 January 16

Will there be any offsite replication ?

PeerSpot user
User at HPE
Vendor
2016-01-23T18:14:25Z
23 January 16

@Peter Fairclough - if you have a 3PAR 7450, the full name is HPE 3PAR StoreServ 7450. Some people use just 3PAR, some just StoreServ but they are the same thing.

PeerSpot user
field support consultant at Hewlett-Packard
Vendor
2016-01-23T13:01:51Z
23 January 16

As per gary answer, you can purchase the full suite, but if the customer has only one 3par then virtual copy is enaugh...

PeerSpot user
Solutions Architect at Technologent
Vendor
2016-01-22T22:54:16Z
22 January 16

So if I understand what you're asking, you want to know if there is any
kind of premium to being able to back up the 3par array? The answer is no,
but there is software specifically available to do snapshots (Virtual Copy)
and for special direct-to-disk backup from a 3par to an HP StoreOnce
de-duplication appliance from Oracle or SQL Server. Feel free to call me if
you need further explanation.

PeerSpot user
Senior Solutions Architect / Engineer at Continental Resources, Inc.
Real User
2016-01-22T19:43:40Z
22 January 16

Hi Ariel,

Yes. I am a current HP Master ASE Storage Solutions Architect V1 and NetApp PSCP/NCIE. I am also a SME with both of these technologies.

There are additional costs with both technologies in regards to data protection.

The HPE 3PAR StoreServ 8000 storage utilizes Virtual Copy, Remote Copy, and Peer Persistence which is part of the 3PAR replication software suite. This suite allows for reservationless point-in-time copies, automatic replication, and transparent failover.

The NetApp All Flash FAS AFF8000 has a Flash Bundle that includes SnapRestore, SnapMirror, FlexClone, SnapManager, and SnapVault. This will allow to backup and restore entire Snapshot copies in seconds, DR replication, instant virtual copies, and application-consistent backups and recovery.

I work for a HP/NetApp VAR on the east coast. You can connect with your VAR with the respective manufacturer to review these additional costs.

HTH...

Thanks,
Gary Binns, The Storage Ninja

PeerSpot user
UI Engineer at a tech vendor
Vendor
2016-01-22T19:40:45Z
22 January 16

It depends on what sort of feature set, disaster recovery, and requirements
your problem solution demands. An exchange server with a few thousand users
and HA will require more features than, say, an archival server. Pricing is
entirely variable based on how good your relationship is with your reseller
& their mood that day.

PeerSpot user
Solutions Architect at Dimension Data
Consultant
2016-01-22T18:40:27Z
22 January 16

Generally you use Raid for backup, raid 5 or 10, so that will be built in
at no additional cost.

Encryption (data protection) is likely a flat fee for a certificate and
will add 1-2% overhead to the performance.

This is standard across almost all data storage devices.

Peter Fairclough - PeerSpot reviewer
Director, Systems Integration at a newspaper with 1,001-5,000 employees
Real User
2016-01-22T18:28:02Z
22 January 16

no, we bought 7450 not storeserv

PeerSpot user
Solutions Evangelist I Big Data I Cloud Enablement I Software - Defined Storage I Cybersecurity with 501-1,000 employees
Vendor
2016-01-22T17:14:36Z
22 January 16

So I would say as it pertains to data protection, from the limited information that is provided. Remote Copy and Virtual Copy are all based on the amount of storage and the # of disks but I would say that these capabilities are approximately 6 to 7% of the costs just glancing at a recent quote.

Typically backup from HP would be with HPStoreONCE, their backup appliance with its own native dedupe algorithm that seamlessly integrates with 3PAR and VMWare. That is a whole other product that typically would be used for backup and that is a separate additional cost that depends on the configuration.

PeerSpot user
field support consultant at Hewlett-Packard
Vendor
2016-01-22T16:46:34Z
22 January 16

I'm not part of sales team, but I can give techniacal advise.
First : the customer is shipping a basic 3par. What kind of disks license he intend to ship?
Second point: you need to add a backup solution, you can ask for a storeonce(vtl) or go with the appliance (vsa) and store the backups in the 3par itself
At least he can ask for virtual copy to tun snapshot...

PeerSpot user
Pre-Sales Consultant at Tarsus Cloud On Demand
Consultant
2016-01-22T16:06:18Z
22 January 16

Arcserve UDP supports from virtual, Physical and tape backups. Got some of the best deduce ratios iv seen.

PeerSpot user
Systems Engineer at Commvault
Real User
2016-01-22T15:42:52Z
22 January 16

Either solution should be protected by an Enterprise grade Data Management
solution such as Commvault. www.commvault.com

PeerSpot user
User at HPE
Vendor
2016-01-22T15:32:10Z
22 January 16

Can you define what you mean by data protection? Are you talking about remote replication, backup integration, or something else? the response from Ozgur and Syed both expose some good information but let me point you to a few blog posts with more details:

Veeam integration is the best in the industry. We've had integration with Veeam for years and continue to improve it. Here are a couple of blog posts that have details and demos:
> http://community.hpe.com/t5/Around-the-Storage-Block/HP-Storage-and-Veeam-integration-demo/ba-p/6794645?jumpid=sc_zs7rxut6bh_AID-510039208 This is a post that includes a demo video I did at VeeamOn 2014. There have been additions to what we can do now, that is the next link.
> StoreOnce Catalyst is an API that allows deduplication to happen where most effective. Veeam and HPE have Catalyst integration with Veeam v9. This post from last week talks about it: http://community.hpe.com/t5/Around-the-Storage-Block/The-wait-is-over-HPE-StoreOnce-Catalyst-with-Veeam-v9-a-data/ba-p/6824653?jumpid=sc_zs7rxut6bh_AID-510039208

Recover Manager Central is a solution for VMware and SQL. As Syed says, it allows you to do backups directly from 3PAR to a StoreOnce without backup software. Again, I have blog posts that talk about this and here are a couple:
> http://community.hpe.com/t5/Around-the-Storage-Block/1-1-3-when-you-integrate-3PAR-StoreOnce-with-RMC/ba-p/6796040?jumpid=sc_zs7rxut6bh_AID-510039208 is a post from last April and gives a really good overview of RMC from the product manager.

A couple last things. HPE 3PAR All-flash has been the fastest growing all-flash in the industry. It has numerous "best in class" and analyst "leaders quadrant" rankings. The thing that sets it apart is you get the performance of all-flash, with really good compaction to drive the price down to the cost of 15K and 10K HDD drives, but it has a set of enterprise features that no other all-flash array has. And if you want to add low cost HDD 7.2K RPM drives to a 3PAR, you can.

Happy to answer any questions you have.

PeerSpot user
Sr. Commercial Account Manager at a tech services company with 501-1,000 employees
Real User
2016-01-22T14:28:54Z
22 January 16

I would be hesitant to install a 3Par 8200 series all flash array until their next Code release comes out in 2-3 weeks which is slated to fix a problem with space reclamation, reporting, and garbage collection on the FLASH drives.

I am having a customer satisfaction issue now due to this problem. I will say that HP is taking care of the customer with 50% additional flash storage at no cost to customer. So HP is making it right and the customer is going to come out with a great deal.

Just make sure you have plenty of capacity to start with. We are also having issues with the deduplication on the SSD drive for that customer.

I have another recent all flash 3PAR install on the 8100 and we had no problems and they are getting 4 to 1 inline dedupe on the SSD drives.

PeerSpot user
vArchitect at a tech company with 10,001+ employees
Vendor
2016-01-22T14:07:44Z
22 January 16

I can help with this question. Both of those solutions require backup
software/hardware. You should try to buy an array that has data protection
built in, and supports hooks into public cloud providers.

it_user239595 - PeerSpot reviewer
User with 10,001+ employees
Vendor
2016-01-22T13:54:41Z
22 January 16

Data protection? Backup? This can mean a lot of different things. At first glance no. Nothing is needed, but there are options available, Application Suites, snaps, replication, HA Cage, encryption, FlatBackup, etc. But it all depends on needs.

If they looking at NETAPP 8020 they need to look no further than the fact NETAPP just bought SolidFire. A flash start up. What does that say about their own lineup? Not to mention the slide they have been in over the last year.

PeerSpot user
Technical Engineer at a tech services company with 1,001-5,000 employees
Consultant
2016-01-22T12:12:10Z
22 January 16

There is no single difference in this two products, massive difference...

Need to understand your requirement to suggest which is prefer in your DC.

PeerSpot user
DataCentre, Managed Services and Cloud Consultant at a tech services company with 51-200 employees
Consultant
2016-01-22T12:02:03Z
22 January 16

With either solution you will need some form of data protection solution. No storage vendor offers backup. It's just snapshots. For proper backup you can get HP data protector which will integrate with the 3par or netapp badges commvault for the netapp array.

Never trust storage only solutions providers who say they do backup as they don't for long term without huge additional costs for disk.

PeerSpot user
Solutions Architect at Hewlett Packard Enterprise
Vendor
2016-01-22T11:46:23Z
22 January 16

It depends what kind of backup and data protection you are looking at........? for quick reference with 3PAR using RMC or RMCV yon can take the backups directly to HPE StoreOnce appliance without need of any additional or third party backup software this will helps you to save the capacity on 3PAR as well as save the snapshots or data with longer retention on StoreOnce appliance using deduplication feature.

Vendor
2016-01-22T11:32:41Z
22 January 16

Hi,
If you have a Virtualized environment, than Veeam Backup would definitely be the best one to go with, due to it's powerful snapshot and backup functionality (a 2 socket license costs approx. 1.500$).

However, if you don't use a virtualized environment, than you can consider the following two solutions that have proven themselves to be reliable: DataProtector or Symantec BackupExec.

Also, besides these subjects (data protection, backup) please check out the features deduplication and compression. If I'm not wrong, HP 3PAR supports deduplication only on SSD Disk Platforms, and no compression. Whereas Netapp supports both features on all platforms. Again, I may not be quite right, please ask your vendor for details.

Regards,
Ozgur

Real User
2016-01-22T11:06:51Z
22 January 16

…I am confused – data protection is built in with the implementation of RAID 5+3 and the backups will be down to their current chosen backup strategy?!

Related Questions
Netanya Carmi - PeerSpot reviewer
Content Manager at PeerSpot (formerly IT Central Station)
Dec 17, 2021
Which is better and why?
See 2 answers
Janet Staver - PeerSpot reviewer
Tech Blogger
15 December 21
HPE Primera has many great features but one of the best is that it is very easy to deploy. From an overall perspective, it is reliable, easy to set up, stable, and offers quality block storage. All of the capabilities of the hardware (including snapshot, replication, and other specific features) come with it, so there is no need for an additional license. In addition, the AI advantages and analytics with InfoSight are definitely powerful. With HPE Primera you are guaranteed great performance with excellent low latency. The AI driven interface is for hybrid cloud, and it also provides insights into any virtualized infrastructure such as proactive recommendations, performance issues, etc. Whatsmore, the dashboards are also great and user-friendly. And the customization capabilities HPE Primera gives you are excellent. From my experience using HPE Primera, there isn’t any real aspect of the solution that needs to be improved other than its high price point. HPE 3par Storeserv is also easy to use and set up. The solution is robust and makes data performance much faster. The data replication feature of HPE 3par does a good job of replicating data cleanly over to a second site. HPE 3par Storeserv also makes it easy to make changes without it affecting your environment. In addition, it comes with a lot of screens with adjustable settings, which makes management easier. Moreover, it is easy to scale, it is very stable, has a very good interface, is reliable, and also allows you to have tiered storage. However, HPE 3par has limitations when it comes to the number of IOPS the system can do and has limited flexibility in regards to building replication solutions. Conclusion: Ultimately, I chose HPE Primera because 3par Storeserv does not have integration with cloud services, which is something I need.
KI
Manager at a financial services firm with 1,001-5,000 employees
17 December 21
@Janet Staver great summary, couldn't have said it better.  However, please note that HPE 3PAR has file support while Primera doesn't.  So, weigh that with your use case and requirements.
Ariel Lindenfeld - PeerSpot reviewer
Director of Content at PeerSpot (formerly IT Central Station)
Mar 14, 2022
Let the community know what you think. Share your opinions now!
2 out of 13 answers
PeerSpot user
Senior Systems Services Technician at a financial services firm
10 November 15
IOPS, throughout and latency
it_user368259 - PeerSpot reviewer
User at a tech company with 51-200 employees
11 January 16
improved accessibility
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