Sr. Commercial Account Manager at a tech services company with 501-1,000 employees
Real User
2017-11-01T13:32:37Z
Nov 1, 2017
I would personally take a look at Nimble Storage. It is all processor and memory based. You can get the same performance out of a Hybrid array from Nimble. They offer all flash as well, but performance is not based on disk I/O. Very cool technology.
When we compare EMC XtremIO with HDS VSP F, there are quite a few things to be kept in the back of the mind:
1. The EMC XtremIO is an AFA that provides only block storage. It is a scale out system and works in terms of X-Bricks. The system can scale from 1-8 X-Bricks.
2. In terms of the benefits, the array is extremely simple to administer and support inline data efficiencies (de-dupe/compression etc).
3. While native replication wasn’t initially available, I believe it is there now as is integration with Recoverpoint.
4. In terms of positioning, we need to remember that, while it is an enterprise grade AFA and has been used to address Tier-0/1 requirements, it is still not the upper most echelon in the EMC hierarchy. The EMC VMAX all flash would be that.
5. The array relies on standard eMLC disks and there have been mentions of integration with NVMe.
6. If you are looking for metro clustering, you will need to rely on the VPLEX which can virtualize the XtremIO behind it. But this is a huge add on cost.
1. The HDS VSP F is a Tier-1 storage array that is intended for the most demanding of apps. Additionally it is among a few arrays that support mainframe connectivity (FICON).
2. HDS does not use standard eMLC drives but instead relies on HDS’s proprietary FMD drives which are pretty much similar to standard SSDs
3. The VSP F conforms to standard VSP architecture and is part of the redesigned portfolio of newer VSP systems (G600, 800 and 1000).
4. It supports enterprise grade replication, metro clustering (Global Active Device) natively.
5. HDS offers standard data efficiency features
6. HDS offers a data availability guarantee.
Comparison:
1. The selection would come down to what you are looking for. The XtremIO would probably be the less expensive option.
2. With HDS, the product has a proven stability/reliability record. The same is true to a great deal with XtremIO.
3. VSP F is treated as a tier-1 enterprise array that can deliver 6 ‘9’ availability which is not the case with XtremIO
4. HDS management interface is still pretty pathetic in comparison with EMC and HDS has never taken that seriously
5. Support is also not a huge differentiator with both EMC and HDS having global support
6. HDS is historically known for being very rigid in terms of what they allow you to do. Typically expansions, add on configs are handled by their own people which is actually not bad but generally at an add on cost.
7. In terms of market numbers, while XtremIO was EMC’s primary bread winner for the last 2-3 years, those numbers have come down and right now, the VMAX is dominating. HDS has been continuously losing market share and has not been innovating. These are things to consider.
8. In short, think about the use case, data criticality, capabilities you are looking for, level of availability, expansion etc. That should cut it. On the EMC side, do remember that, XtremIO integrates with ViPR and also with vRA. You may want to explore the VMAX option. You can start small on the VMAX and it would be a better buy in the longer run.
Conclusion:
1. For a company of around ~500 employees, I believe the XtremIO would suffice. Think about capacity and growth. The VSP would probably be an overkill unless you have a need for such capabilities.
After trying and talking to various different NAS vendors (NetApp, EMC, Nimble, etc.)
We decided to go with PureStorage FlashBlades and we couldn’t be happier with faster I/O’s, better latency and overall very steady performance plus very low management on the IT side.
Founding Partner at a transportation company with 1,001-5,000 employees
Real User
2017-11-02T11:53:34Z
Nov 2, 2017
Alfred Morgan Jones did a very good job comparing EMC XtremIO and Hitachi Virtual Storage F series above. I recommend everyone to read his analysis. If someone must really make a choice between EMC XtremIO and Hitachi F series in terms of technology, reliability and support, then Hitachi F series is clear winner. Of course the nature of app. and data may change this based on whatever the criteria is. And finally money matters as well :)
Imho both Vendor´s have their pro´s and con´s. For our last Projects we do some POC´s with Pure with excellent results. So give them a try. POC with Pure is really easy to manage.
Chief Information, Facility, Purchasing and Services Manager at Roma Metropolitane S.r.l.
Real User
2017-11-02T09:15:08Z
Nov 2, 2017
I’ve tested EMC XtremeIO two years ago, I don’t know Hitachi, but there are two things that push me to buy a Pure Storage, first is an EMC low performance with words more than 16 Kbits and the second is the design, I don’t want a big UPS in the middle of the more expensive/important storage.
Have you looked at the IBM V9000, has virtualisation software, with
microlatency modules instead of SSD drives which everyone else uses, SSD
can also be used, other disk can also be virtualised to ensure smooth
migration
I would consider Pure Storage, //m or //x. EMC X2 ridged upgrade policy and where it should have been 2 years ago. No upgrade path from X1 - X2 so will the same be true off X2 - X3?
it is necessary to verify for which application you will need this intensive access of IO virtualization database for example Oracle Database RAC ETC..
Director , Business Department at a computer software company with 51-200 employees
User
2017-11-02T00:55:37Z
Nov 2, 2017
I recommend Pure Storage, not DELL/EMC or HDS , these two vendors are old school style . I join the completely PoC of Pure Storage, the results exceed our exceptions, and then we bought two FA m20 .
Manager Technology Services with 501-1,000 employees
User
2017-11-01T22:34:04Z
Nov 1, 2017
I would go with the Hitachi Virtual Storage as the EMC XtremIO has known support issues. Some of the software updates require that they bring in a new array and you migrate you data to it, then back after the upgrade. I would recommend the Nimble AF series as they are rock solid, are saleable, and provide you with tons of stats and performance information.
Why would you not look at Pure? They have superior reliability, simplicity and data reduction. Gartner has rated them first in completeness of vision all four years that they have put out a MQ on all flash arrays. Their Evergreen storage progam makes them have the lowest TCO of any vendor.
Senior Systems Consultant at Dimension Data new Zealand Limited
Consultant
2017-11-01T20:04:12Z
Nov 1, 2017
Hi:
In response to your question:
If the choice is between Dell EMC XtremIO and Hitachi Virtual Storage F series, I must preface my recommendation with 2 caveats:
· It is apparent the user has a specific set of requirements that require very low latency with a very large number of I-Os.
· It is also probable that the user has a specific application in mind that only supports a subset of the available AFA vendors, thus limiting the scope of the comparison.
DellEMC XtremIO (X2):
PRO:
· Has a wide user base
· Works very well in VDI and with applications with low latency requirements
· Has a 4:1 data reduction efficiency guarantee (but read the small print).
· Can scale in most cases, but some care is required in design.
· Is easily deployed and maintained.
CON:
· DellEMC are rationalising their product lines:
o The new X2 range is not selling as well as the competition: IBM and PureStorage.
o Does XtremIO have a long term future?
· Scalability is at the “brick” level. Nothing smaller.
· Does not support file (NAS).
Hitachi Virtual Storage F series:
PRO:
· Hitachi arrays are very reliable and have a 100% “data availability guarantee”.
· Works very well with applications with low latency requirements
· Claims 5:1 dedup/compression savings on primary data, but only guarantees 2:1.
o A 5:1 data size reduction is close to the best in the industry (PureStorage).
· Can be used for Block and File when combined with the NAS module.
CON:
· Hitachi storage arrays are not the simplest to administer or maintain.
· Whilst the F series uses a GUI that claims to be aimed at “IT generalists”, this still has some way to go to be as easy to setup as XtremIO or other AFA vendors.
· Hitachi Vantara: Is hardware in their future direction?.
If the application vendor has a preference, go with that.
What is your task?
if you need stand alone storage for giving amount of big data than you must use flash discs (not ssd) i preferred IBM flash system 900
if you need for Virtual infrastructure than i recommended Storvize V7000/V7000F
HDS VSP F Platform is more reliable Than the xtream io in terms of scalability , performance and availability, to compare apples to apples you need to try VMax.
If your environment is heavy virtualized, take a look at Tintri's VM-awareness storage. It has a lot of cool features, like VM-level storage snapshots and recovery, QoS per VM, realtime analytics
Don't know much about Hitachi, so I can't comment on that.
Have 3 XtremeIO onsite. While performance is great, but can get pricey really quick. Need additional hardware and software for replication, which can complicate the environment. Would definitely get something else if I can do it over again.
I'd look into Pure storage, NetApp and others that'll suit your environment.
Network Engineer at a financial services firm with 1,001-5,000 employees
Vendor
2017-11-01T16:37:03Z
Nov 1, 2017
We did a PoC between Pure M series and EMC XtremeIO. The best advice I can give is to do a PoC and put some data on it. I would also look at the all flash VNX3 (Unity)
Director of Information Technology at a transportation company with 501-1,000 employees
Real User
2017-11-01T15:43:36Z
Nov 1, 2017
Neither. I would recommend Nimble (as of today, HPE) all flash arrays. Superior performance, reliability, management, machine intelligent analysis tools, all included.
Storage Administrator at a tech services company with 10,001+ employees
Real User
2017-11-01T15:34:34Z
Nov 1, 2017
what are your application needs ?
if this is your first flash array purchase, I would recommend you to do POC's with different Flash vendors before purchasing.
with all flash arrays, most of the vendors promise 6:1 or 10:1 or higher dedup and compression ratio, but ultimately you know your application more than any other person and what its doing.
we purchased All Flash array from a vendor, who promised us 6:1, but ultimately, we got 2:1, so i highly recommend you do POC first whom ever you end up with.
coming to Xtreme IO vs VSP F series, i would recommend to go to VSP F series, because HDS architecture is more reliable than other and its built from scratch by HDS, where was XtremeIO was acquired by EMC and trying to build it up and its pricey. If you are interested in EMC, i would recommend you to do POC on their VMAX flash array.
Business Development Manager EMEA at Tegile | Western Digital
Vendor
2017-11-01T14:44:15Z
Nov 1, 2017
Beware if anyone states they have the best dedupe and compression it is well known that most vendors use the same algorithms, the question is is it truly inline? and is there any performance impact for running this? Also be sure to check you are buying enterprise products with such a big investment as some vendors use the cheapest components which can affect lifecycle. I would personally recommend Tegile - ( a Western Digital Brand) as one unified storage platform for block and file with inline dedupe and compression with no performance degradation and no licensing costs. see http://www.tegile.com/ - I would also question the life cycle of the XtremIO product in Dell/Emc portfolio.
Windows Systems Analyst at a manufacturing company with 10,001+ employees
Real User
2017-11-01T14:34:50Z
Nov 1, 2017
Sorry my friend…. I don’t have any kind of experience working with Hitachi Virtual Storage, only with XtremIO and I can tell you my experience was excellent, it is a powerful box high dedup and compression ratio, I have been watching half brick models hosting 1500 VM’s running there with <1ms of latency on disk. It’s a general purpose storage and it can give you the happiness you are looking for with your DB’s or Virual environment…
I have only been recently introduced to the HDS portfolio from a Solutions
Architecture perspective. I have not done much work on HDS to objectively
compare it with XIO. I have done more work with XIO and the Dell EMC
storage portfolio.
Both products have their merits and but my case I would go for the XIO as
its considered a Market Leader in its segment.
Pure Storage. Best dedupe and compression. Superior Perf.
Install and forget. Management is built in. No Appliances etc. All you need is a html5 browser to manage. No additional software licenses needed 4 snapshots etc. With the new Purity OS5 even sync replication is built in.
Hi peers,
How would you compare the All-Flash Storage Arrays products, such as Hitachi Virtual Storage Platform F, HPE Nimble Storage and Dell EMC Unity XT?
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I would personally take a look at Nimble Storage. It is all processor and memory based. You can get the same performance out of a Hybrid array from Nimble. They offer all flash as well, but performance is not based on disk I/O. Very cool technology.
When we compare EMC XtremIO with HDS VSP F, there are quite a few things to be kept in the back of the mind:
1. The EMC XtremIO is an AFA that provides only block storage. It is a scale out system and works in terms of X-Bricks. The system can scale from 1-8 X-Bricks.
2. In terms of the benefits, the array is extremely simple to administer and support inline data efficiencies (de-dupe/compression etc).
3. While native replication wasn’t initially available, I believe it is there now as is integration with Recoverpoint.
4. In terms of positioning, we need to remember that, while it is an enterprise grade AFA and has been used to address Tier-0/1 requirements, it is still not the upper most echelon in the EMC hierarchy. The EMC VMAX all flash would be that.
5. The array relies on standard eMLC disks and there have been mentions of integration with NVMe.
6. If you are looking for metro clustering, you will need to rely on the VPLEX which can virtualize the XtremIO behind it. But this is a huge add on cost.
1. The HDS VSP F is a Tier-1 storage array that is intended for the most demanding of apps. Additionally it is among a few arrays that support mainframe connectivity (FICON).
2. HDS does not use standard eMLC drives but instead relies on HDS’s proprietary FMD drives which are pretty much similar to standard SSDs
3. The VSP F conforms to standard VSP architecture and is part of the redesigned portfolio of newer VSP systems (G600, 800 and 1000).
4. It supports enterprise grade replication, metro clustering (Global Active Device) natively.
5. HDS offers standard data efficiency features
6. HDS offers a data availability guarantee.
Comparison:
1. The selection would come down to what you are looking for. The XtremIO would probably be the less expensive option.
2. With HDS, the product has a proven stability/reliability record. The same is true to a great deal with XtremIO.
3. VSP F is treated as a tier-1 enterprise array that can deliver 6 ‘9’ availability which is not the case with XtremIO
4. HDS management interface is still pretty pathetic in comparison with EMC and HDS has never taken that seriously
5. Support is also not a huge differentiator with both EMC and HDS having global support
6. HDS is historically known for being very rigid in terms of what they allow you to do. Typically expansions, add on configs are handled by their own people which is actually not bad but generally at an add on cost.
7. In terms of market numbers, while XtremIO was EMC’s primary bread winner for the last 2-3 years, those numbers have come down and right now, the VMAX is dominating. HDS has been continuously losing market share and has not been innovating. These are things to consider.
8. In short, think about the use case, data criticality, capabilities you are looking for, level of availability, expansion etc. That should cut it. On the EMC side, do remember that, XtremIO integrates with ViPR and also with vRA. You may want to explore the VMAX option. You can start small on the VMAX and it would be a better buy in the longer run.
Conclusion:
1. For a company of around ~500 employees, I believe the XtremIO would suffice. Think about capacity and growth. The VSP would probably be an overkill unless you have a need for such capabilities.
Hello,
After trying and talking to various different NAS vendors (NetApp, EMC, Nimble, etc.)
We decided to go with PureStorage FlashBlades and we couldn’t be happier with faster I/O’s, better latency and overall very steady performance plus very low management on the IT side.
Alfred Morgan Jones did a very good job comparing EMC XtremIO and Hitachi Virtual Storage F series above. I recommend everyone to read his analysis. If someone must really make a choice between EMC XtremIO and Hitachi F series in terms of technology, reliability and support, then Hitachi F series is clear winner. Of course the nature of app. and data may change this based on whatever the criteria is. And finally money matters as well :)
Imho both Vendor´s have their pro´s and con´s. For our last Projects we do some POC´s with Pure with excellent results. So give them a try. POC with Pure is really easy to manage.
I’ve tested EMC XtremeIO two years ago, I don’t know Hitachi, but there are two things that push me to buy a Pure Storage, first is an EMC low performance with words more than 16 Kbits and the second is the design, I don’t want a big UPS in the middle of the more expensive/important storage.
Hi
Have you looked at the IBM V9000, has virtualisation software, with
microlatency modules instead of SSD drives which everyone else uses, SSD
can also be used, other disk can also be virtualised to ensure smooth
migration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyEc1eLk1to
https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?htmlfid=TSD03189USEN
I would recommend Hitachi.
I would consider Pure Storage, //m or //x. EMC X2 ridged upgrade policy and where it should have been 2 years ago. No upgrade path from X1 - X2 so will the same be true off X2 - X3?
XtremeIO
it is necessary to verify for which application you will need this intensive access of IO virtualization database for example Oracle Database RAC ETC..
I recommend Pure Storage, not DELL/EMC or HDS , these two vendors are old school style . I join the completely PoC of Pure Storage, the results exceed our exceptions, and then we bought two FA m20 .
Kaminario K2
I would go with the Hitachi Virtual Storage as the EMC XtremIO has known support issues. Some of the software updates require that they bring in a new array and you migrate you data to it, then back after the upgrade. I would recommend the Nimble AF series as they are rock solid, are saleable, and provide you with tons of stats and performance information.
Why would you not look at Pure? They have superior reliability, simplicity and data reduction. Gartner has rated them first in completeness of vision all four years that they have put out a MQ on all flash arrays. Their Evergreen storage progam makes them have the lowest TCO of any vendor.
Dell EMC XtremIO Flash Storage works like a champ! I am sure any customers would be satisfied with this product.
Hi:
In response to your question:
If the choice is between Dell EMC XtremIO and Hitachi Virtual Storage F series, I must preface my recommendation with 2 caveats:
· It is apparent the user has a specific set of requirements that require very low latency with a very large number of I-Os.
· It is also probable that the user has a specific application in mind that only supports a subset of the available AFA vendors, thus limiting the scope of the comparison.
DellEMC XtremIO (X2):
PRO:
· Has a wide user base
· Works very well in VDI and with applications with low latency requirements
· Has a 4:1 data reduction efficiency guarantee (but read the small print).
· Can scale in most cases, but some care is required in design.
· Is easily deployed and maintained.
CON:
· DellEMC are rationalising their product lines:
o The new X2 range is not selling as well as the competition: IBM and PureStorage.
o Does XtremIO have a long term future?
· Scalability is at the “brick” level. Nothing smaller.
· Does not support file (NAS).
Hitachi Virtual Storage F series:
PRO:
· Hitachi arrays are very reliable and have a 100% “data availability guarantee”.
· Works very well with applications with low latency requirements
· Claims 5:1 dedup/compression savings on primary data, but only guarantees 2:1.
o A 5:1 data size reduction is close to the best in the industry (PureStorage).
· Can be used for Block and File when combined with the NAS module.
CON:
· Hitachi storage arrays are not the simplest to administer or maintain.
· Whilst the F series uses a GUI that claims to be aimed at “IT generalists”, this still has some way to go to be as easy to setup as XtremIO or other AFA vendors.
· Hitachi Vantara: Is hardware in their future direction?.
If the application vendor has a preference, go with that.
I'd recommend an Infinidat Array, Huawei Dorado or a Tintri EC6000 series
What is your task?
if you need stand alone storage for giving amount of big data than you must use flash discs (not ssd) i preferred IBM flash system 900
if you need for Virtual infrastructure than i recommended Storvize V7000/V7000F
HDS VSP F Platform is more reliable Than the xtream io in terms of scalability , performance and availability, to compare apples to apples you need to try VMax.
If your environment is heavy virtualized, take a look at Tintri's VM-awareness storage. It has a lot of cool features, like VM-level storage snapshots and recovery, QoS per VM, realtime analytics
Don't know much about Hitachi, so I can't comment on that.
Have 3 XtremeIO onsite. While performance is great, but can get pricey really quick. Need additional hardware and software for replication, which can complicate the environment. Would definitely get something else if I can do it over again.
I'd look into Pure storage, NetApp and others that'll suit your environment.
We did a PoC between Pure M series and EMC XtremeIO. The best advice I can give is to do a PoC and put some data on it. I would also look at the all flash VNX3 (Unity)
Neither. I would recommend Nimble (as of today, HPE) all flash arrays. Superior performance, reliability, management, machine intelligent analysis tools, all included.
what are your application needs ?
if this is your first flash array purchase, I would recommend you to do POC's with different Flash vendors before purchasing.
with all flash arrays, most of the vendors promise 6:1 or 10:1 or higher dedup and compression ratio, but ultimately you know your application more than any other person and what its doing.
we purchased All Flash array from a vendor, who promised us 6:1, but ultimately, we got 2:1, so i highly recommend you do POC first whom ever you end up with.
coming to Xtreme IO vs VSP F series, i would recommend to go to VSP F series, because HDS architecture is more reliable than other and its built from scratch by HDS, where was XtremeIO was acquired by EMC and trying to build it up and its pricey. If you are interested in EMC, i would recommend you to do POC on their VMAX flash array.
Dell!
Beware if anyone states they have the best dedupe and compression it is well known that most vendors use the same algorithms, the question is is it truly inline? and is there any performance impact for running this? Also be sure to check you are buying enterprise products with such a big investment as some vendors use the cheapest components which can affect lifecycle. I would personally recommend Tegile - ( a Western Digital Brand) as one unified storage platform for block and file with inline dedupe and compression with no performance degradation and no licensing costs. see http://www.tegile.com/ - I would also question the life cycle of the XtremIO product in Dell/Emc portfolio.
Sorry my friend…. I don’t have any kind of experience working with Hitachi Virtual Storage, only with XtremIO and I can tell you my experience was excellent, it is a powerful box high dedup and compression ratio, I have been watching half brick models hosting 1500 VM’s running there with <1ms of latency on disk. It’s a general purpose storage and it can give you the happiness you are looking for with your DB’s or Virual environment…
I would recommend the Dell EMC XtremIO Flash storage any day, but be sure to have the XtremIO X2 which has way more better specs.
I have only been recently introduced to the HDS portfolio from a Solutions
Architecture perspective. I have not done much work on HDS to objectively
compare it with XIO. I have done more work with XIO and the Dell EMC
storage portfolio.
Both products have their merits and but my case I would go for the XIO as
its considered a Market Leader in its segment.
Btw. 500 employees
Pure Storage. Best dedupe and compression. Superior Perf.
Install and forget. Management is built in. No Appliances etc. All you need is a html5 browser to manage. No additional software licenses needed 4 snapshots etc. With the new Purity OS5 even sync replication is built in.
We are staying away from any further purchases of XtremIO. I am currently pulling all those systems out of WellCare.
I am installing some VNX250s and I have PURE M70. Both are performing well.
We were not interested in the Hitachi line of products.
Hope this helps.
The Hitachi Virtual Storage F Series is more reliable, but the deduplication of the XtremIO is higher
No one of this, check Huawei Dorado, he keep Latency lower than competitor event when you have a heavy load
Dell EMC XtremIO Flash Storage